Stefan Passantino, the former White House deputy counsel in charge of policing ethics in the Trump administration, offered a glimpse Monday into what he said was the immediate and predictable chaos that followed after President Donald Trump finished taking the oath of office in 2017.

Passantino—now a partner at Michael Best with offices in Atlanta and Washington—also defended newly-minted White House staff who had to abandon an operating style that served them well on the campaign trail, but that threatened to violate federal ethics laws once Trump became president.