Richard Hsu is a legal recruiter for Major, Lindsey & Africa. Before that, he spent 20 years as an IP lawyer in Southern California and Silicon Valley. And on the side he hosts a podcast, Hsu Untied, where he interviews lawyers and other business leaders.

Hsu began the podcast in 2014 by interviewing lawyers about their personal hobbies. Over time, he began to ask more questions about his guests’ work lives, their career moves and the lessons they learned along the way. Based on all that, we thought Hsu would have pretty savvy advice for lawyers looking to get ahead in their careers.

On this Legal Speak episode, reporter Xiumei Dong talks with Hsu about the qualities that define the best lawyers.

One difference-maker, Hsu says, is whether someone thinks like a service provider and anticipates their clients needs. “There’s probably not a job in the world that epitomizes being a service provider better than being a waiter.”

Listen to the podcast above or find us on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, or Libsyn.